Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions


Upload your resume securely at https://www.dwsimpson.com
to be contacted when new jobs meet your skills and objectives.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-29-2018, 09:57 AM
twig93's Avatar
twig93 twig93 is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 33,475
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
I never said it was. Once someone gets there, they have to not be rude/be a dick. You'd be surprised how some people need to be told this.
Oh, I thought you were implying that the mere act of being early was rude (which is the premise of this thread).

Yes, I agree that it's surprising how many candidates do stupid stuff like being rude to a receptionist or secretary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hostess View Post
you really think the receptionist has a say in the hiring process?
No one is getting hired on the basis of being nice to the receptionist, but if the receptionist mentions to the hiring manager that the candidate was rude to her, there is absolutely no way the candidate is being hired no matter how great the rest of their interviews went. Whether it's for entry level or Vice President. Actually, probably even more so for Vice President where people skills are even more important.

Showing up an hour early is not rude though.
__________________
Originally Posted by Gandalf
The thing that is clearest is twig's advice
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-29-2018, 10:26 AM
figure 8's Avatar
figure 8 figure 8 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twig93 View Post
Why judge a candidate for how they like to spend their off time? Maybe they *like* Cosmo; maybe they're reading their favorite novel. Most likely they're catching up on Facebook and texting people on their phone... or whatever the young 'uns do on smart phones these days
Yes, it is certainly possibly that the person *wants* to spend an hour in the office lobby because they find it a good use of their time. I should not judge them for that if that gives them joy. But if I'm charge of hiring, I will need to judge them, and so I would perhaps ask them to explain why they're an hour early to see what kind of reason they give. There could be good reasons, bad reasons, or neutral reasons.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
Your avatar indicates that you are a human being trapped in the body of a donkey, trying to burst out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
I don't think figure8 agrees with figure8 anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-29-2018, 10:38 AM
figure 8's Avatar
figure 8 figure 8 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GargoyleWaiting View Post
Once I know someone is waiting for me, suddenly I feel like I'm the rude one for making them wait. That's a negative. And, as others have said, it's just not normal to turn up that early. You wouldn't do it going to the movies, you wouldn't do it meeting friends, you wouldn't do it in a restaurant. So don't do it here.
I agree with you here, as well as with everyone else saying similar things. If I'm told the person is here and it's one hour early, now I have to decide, do I wait an hour or go interview this person early at some point? (That is, assuming I don't have any other appointments over the next hour.) I might wonder if the person got the initial time wrong, or if I had it wrong, and need to look into that. Even if I decide to wait until the previously-agreed upon time, I might question whether I'm being rude by making the person wait an hour. The fact that the person is here is now a distraction. Even if it's a minor distraction, it's a minor negative. It's not really a big deal and maybe some people care 0%, but why do something that could easily be construed as a negative? I don't see how anyone would view it as a positive - maybe neutral at best.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
Your avatar indicates that you are a human being trapped in the body of a donkey, trying to burst out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
I don't think figure8 agrees with figure8 anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-29-2018, 10:42 AM
figure 8's Avatar
figure 8 figure 8 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
What is a reasonable earliness amount?
15 minutes or less to show up inside the office (you can get to the area as soon as you want - just wait to go inside imo)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
Your avatar indicates that you are a human being trapped in the body of a donkey, trying to burst out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
I don't think figure8 agrees with figure8 anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-29-2018, 10:47 AM
GargoyleWaiting's Avatar
GargoyleWaiting GargoyleWaiting is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Favorite beer: the closest one
Posts: 7,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by figure 8 View Post
I might wonder if the person got the initial time wrong, or if I had it wrong
Or, you know, HR told the candiate one time and you a different one.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by UFActuary View Post
But the mosquitoes in New Brunswick Bay of Fundy did mess with my understanding of some limited loss functions
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the North View Post
Excel gave me #VALUE.

Edit: Nevermind, I was linking a sumif and didn't open the linked spreadsheet. It is now giving me #N/A.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-29-2018, 11:17 AM
hjacjswo hjacjswo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
College: About to be a super senior
Posts: 1,599
Default

I think the issue isn't necessarily of the person getting there one hr early, but, of the person getting there and calling for the interviewer one hr early?

I've gotten to interviews one hour + early a few times. When you fly into a completely new city, espeically if it's a suburban place, you don't wanna take uber around town to kill time and risk being late. But, I always make sure to tell the front desk to not call the interviewer until I ask them to.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-29-2018, 11:47 AM
whoanonstop's Avatar
whoanonstop whoanonstop is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Studying for Spark / Scala
College: College of William and Mary
Favorite beer: Orange Juice
Posts: 5,899
Blog Entries: 1
Default

I can't imagine the lack of skills needed at a place where the deciding factor comes down to one being an hour early.

-Riley
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:16 PM
figure 8's Avatar
figure 8 figure 8 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoanonstop View Post
I can't imagine the lack of skills needed at a place where the deciding factor comes down to one being an hour early.

-Riley
Eh, don't think it has to do with skills as much as it has to do with competitiveness. Two very evenly matched, highly skilled candidates - but one shows up an hour early and one is right on time? Time management and not doing something strange/confusing (like being an hour early) are relevant for almost every job. Yes - it's a small detail that we're perhaps actuarying to death - but small details can make a difference when things are competitive.

I'm sure plenty of people have not gotten a job (whether highly skilled or not) for being too late. Not sure why being too early couldn't be a thing too. People just have different definitions of "too early," just like they do for "too late."
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
Your avatar indicates that you are a human being trapped in the body of a donkey, trying to burst out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
I don't think figure8 agrees with figure8 anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:29 PM
whoanonstop's Avatar
whoanonstop whoanonstop is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Studying for Spark / Scala
College: College of William and Mary
Favorite beer: Orange Juice
Posts: 5,899
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by figure 8 View Post
Eh, don't think it has to do with skills as much as it has to do with competitiveness. Two very evenly matched, highly skilled candidates - but one shows up an hour early and one is right on time?
This hypothetical situation of heavily skilled candidates being compared is getting old. The idea that two candidates will magically be equal and that it comes down to a coin flip is ludicrous.

Let's be honest, most places don't even have an interview process that would be able to differentiate between a highly skilled candidate and a mediocre candidate, which has probably aided in the perception that entry level candidates are fungible.

Or it could be that most actuarial work isn't difficult and that differentiating between a mediocre and highly-skilled candidate isn't even valuable, so it comes down to if they arrived early or not.

Either way, it is a huge turn-off towards the profession when someone makes a statement along the lines of "we didn't hire them because they arrived an hour early" or "they misspelled one word on their resume" or "they just said "Hey" when answering the phone". It just shows that there is almost 0 focus on skills beyond the check marked exams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by figure 8 View Post
I'm sure plenty of people have not gotten a job (whether highly skilled or not) for being too late. Not sure why being too early couldn't be a thing too. People just have different definitions of "too early," just like they do for "too late."
Also, being early vs being late are totally different things. This isn't even hard to understand.

-Riley
__________________

Last edited by whoanonstop; 11-29-2018 at 12:33 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:34 PM
figure 8's Avatar
figure 8 figure 8 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 5,213
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoanonstop View Post
This hypothetical situation of heavily skilled candidates being compared is getting old. The idea that two candidates will magically be equal and that it comes down to a coin flip is ludicrous.

Let's be honest, most places don't even have an interview process that would be able to differentiate between a highly skilled candidate and a mediocre candidate, which has probably aided in the perception that entry level candidates are fungible.

Or it could be that most actuarial work isn't difficult and that differentiating between a mediocre and highly-skilled candidate isn't even valuable, so it comes down to if they arrived early or not.

-Riley
Do you think companies should meet with someone in person before hiring them? Skill sets can be assessed without meeting someone in person after all.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
Your avatar indicates that you are a human being trapped in the body of a donkey, trying to burst out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listeria View Post
I don't think figure8 agrees with figure8 anymore.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
autism, pedantry, poindexter, wow

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.23035 seconds with 9 queries