Actuarial Outpost
 
Go Back   Actuarial Outpost > Actuarial Discussion Forum > Careers - Employment
FlashChat Actuarial Discussion Preliminary Exams CAS/SOA Exams Cyberchat Around the World Suggestions

Search Actuarial Jobs by State @ DWSimpson.com:
AL AK AR AZ CA CO CT DE FL GA HI ID IL IN IA KS KY LA
ME MD MA MI MN MS MO MT NE NH NJ NM NY NV NC ND
OH OK OR PA RI SC SD TN TX UT VT VA WA WV WI WY

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-16-2018, 06:10 PM
examsarehard examsarehard is online now
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 597
Default

My experience with that recruiter has been generally positive, and I know several people who feel similarly. She has a strong personality so I can see how that would rub some people the wrong way, but I feel she puts a lot more effort into trying to land you a position, and I respect that.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-16-2018, 06:48 PM
nonactuarialactuary nonactuarialactuary is offline
Member
Non-Actuary
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 2,181
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
If the recruiter wants the answer to these questions, they should ask the direct questions. If they don't think they will get a straight answer by asking me the questions directly then they don't trust me and think they know what I am and am not willing to do better than me. That generally isn't the type of personality I want to work with.
True, but I've generally found that professional relationships work a lot better if I'm able to open up on a personal level. This recruiter might work a little harder for OP if she sees him as a person rather than just random candidate #1234. I've been on projects where I felt like I could call my coworkers friends, and I've also been on projects where we stuck to just the professional stuff. The former situation is a lot better. Then again, I'm pretty open with my personal life at work. Not much to hide. I can't see any downside in a recruiter knowing that my wife works in HR/Finance at a small company, but I suppose I might be more private about it if she worked as a stripper or something.

I think I have an idea on who the recruiter is too. I've never worked with her, but I've heard stories, if it's the same person I'm thinking of.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:25 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 29,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jominican View Post
This really helps. One red flag I'm getting is she doesn't think I deserve the salary I expect, even though I think I referenced reasonable numbers. She does seem like she wants to help me get a job, even though I told her I'm not gonna take any job less than the salary I want so I don't want to waste anyone's time.
Yeah, next time it comes up, I'd just say "Here's the minimum" (and probably aim just a bit high on that). Wait for whatever comments she has and *politely* say "I think I'm worth (whatever number you already said); if you don't think so, or don't think you can get an employer to think that, then there's probably candidates that are a better use of your time and recruiters that are a better use of my time, but good luck to you" and then hang up. If you don't hear back, then you'll be better off not talking to her. If she calls back, just wait a couple weeks before you return the call and then just politely brush her back off until she comes around to your POV.

Also, if she cuts you off (sounds like that's common) in the middle of that, just wait till she finishes whatever schpiel and then go back with the same thing again. If she cuts you off again, just hang up and send an email.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hjacjswo View Post
I think that's somewhat common. It does become a problem, tho, when you get an offer and need to negotiate. She probably won't push for the desired salary very aggressively.
She'll push the company if she thinks that OP is serious about the stated expectation. If she thinks that she can push back and make a deal below OP's stated expectation, then she won't.

One of the things that actuaries often miss is that we deal in facts and data, and generally believe that we should say "The sky is blue" because the sky is blue. Many people in marketing and relationship-based fields are more like "Well, it's blue-ish, depending on what you mean by blue, so I might call it red or purple or yellow, but I think we can all agree that it's not green". Basically, facts and data are a lot more flexible than how actuaries see them, so you need to spend some time making clear to such people what you actually mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr T Non-Fan View Post
"Sometimes when I try to understand a person's motives, I play a little game: I assume the worst."
Good RN!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:30 PM
Colonel Smoothie's Avatar
Colonel Smoothie Colonel Smoothie is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
College: Jamba Juice University
Favorite beer: AO Amber Ale
Posts: 49,180
Default

I think for your geographic area the midpoint is reasonable, probably too low for some of the more demanding jobs out there.
__________________
Recommended Readings for the EL Actuary || Recommended Readings for the EB Actuary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigmeister General View Post
Don't you even think about sending me your resume. I'll turn it into an origami boulder and return it to you.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:39 PM
JoshChicago JoshChicago is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 34
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
I'm kind of sad she didn't try to talk to me during the annual meeting. I like attention.
Here's some attention. I hope you like it.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:45 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 29,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jominican View Post
Wesley


Quote:
Originally Posted by jominican View Post
-she asks very private information, some of which I didn't give. Current salary, what my gf's occupation (wtf?), when I plan to get married, etc.
-she think she's right when I disagree with her. I told her a reasonable range of salary I'm expecting straight from the midpoint of DWSimpson and she argues that I'm expecting too much. She spent 30 minutes trying to look up commute times from my home to work given her travel experiences, even when I told her she's way off and I literally looked it up on Googlemaps as we spoke.
These are easy to fix:
"I'm not going to comment on that, doesn't seem relevant to anything we're dealing with".
"lol wow. Um, ok, gotta go but keep me posted on that other thing, bye".
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-16-2018, 07:54 PM
campbell's Avatar
campbell campbell is offline
Mary Pat Campbell
SOA AAA
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: NY
Studying for duolingo and coursera
Favorite beer: Murphy's Irish Stout
Posts: 89,490
Blog Entries: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Smoothie View Post
I'm kind of sad she didn't try to talk to me during the annual meeting. I like attention.
you're still pretty
__________________
It's STUMP

LinkedIn Profile
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-16-2018, 09:26 PM
PeppermintPatty's Avatar
PeppermintPatty PeppermintPatty is offline
Member
CAS
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 42,118
Default

I've worked with her on both sides. She placed me in a job 20 years ago, and I hired a couple candidates through her. She's obnoxious. For instance, she pushed me to wear makeup (I didn't) and gave other friends overly personal advice. She also edited my resume a bit without my permission. (probably just to remove my contact info and replace it with hers, but I remember being pissed when I saw the resume she had given out.) But she also was the best recruiter I worked with as a hiring manager for finding candidates who were actually good fits.

But that was 20 years ago, maybe she's changed. Anyway, if you are uncomfortable, find a different recruiter. Just be super careful to communicate to her that you don't want her to present you. And if some company that she's already presented you expresses interest, you probably have to work with her.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-16-2018, 09:33 PM
jominican jominican is offline
Member
SOA
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeppermintPatty View Post
I've worked with her on both sides. She placed me in a job 20 years ago, and I hired a couple candidates through her. She's obnoxious. For instance, she pushed me to wear makeup (I didn't) and gave other friends overly personal advice. She also edited my resume a bit without my permission. (probably just to remove my contact info and replace it with hers, but I remember being pissed when I saw the resume she had given out.) But she also was the best recruiter I worked with as a hiring manager for finding candidates who were actually good fits.
I'm pretty surprised so many people know about her only given the descriptions haha. Is the actuarial recruiting world that small?

Really appreciate all the feedback I've gotten from people though!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-16-2018, 09:50 PM
Westley Westley is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 29,242
Default

I assumed I knew who you meant when you said “rude” but I wasn’t sure. The late night stuff is v weird and seemed to confirm it to those that know her.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
*PLEASE NOTE: Posts are not checked for accuracy, and do not
represent the views of the Actuarial Outpost or its sponsors.
Page generated in 0.26534 seconds with 9 queries